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  • So, after what had happened on my wall about high ranks abusing the lower ranks, I decided too go "visit" the lower rank rooms, not too play in them, but just too enter and see who was in them, most notably, rooms between 1400~1600 MR, and I was quite surprised at the number of high ranks in them, a lot of 1800, 1900, but I saw more 2000+ ranks then any others(Also found it funny how they would run away from the room when I joined), it is quite sad too know that SO MANY people do this, abusing the lower ranks for their own gains, I then decided too play a single mission in a low rank (With a lvl 4 MiG-21, was in a Pops/Viper mood) too see how the high ranks acted in the room while I just stayed back and aimed only for the targets others had missed(Weapon Base Assault) and surprise surprise the high ranks were hogging all the Red and most Orange TGTs for themselves, leaving the lower ranks with yellow crumbs what was sad was that when the Missions update happened and we were faced with the enemy squadron(Specialist) it took almost 2 minutes for all of them too go down, since the high ranks were very incapable at shooting them down even though they were flying F-15S/MTDs, SU-47s and X-02s, and ultimately failed too get an S rank, so not only were these high ranks abusing lower ranks, they weren't very capable players themselves, and I wondered if they played in these rooms so they could feel good about themselves, beating everyone else in the game(Even though there was a clear skill difference), I felt sorry for the Nuggets, and I felt anger and disgusted by these so called "high ranks". I plan on creating a 2nd account too go deeper into this as well as running a few other tests on my main, but what do you guys think about these people abusing the nuggets?

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    • The problem is that the game does not penalize players for doing this. If you're a 2500 playing in a room with six 1400s, you're going to get insane rewards because that's what the Matching Rate says - you are so incredibly skilled and these guys are not, therefore you're going to completely wipe the floor with them. People do this all the time because you get better rewards for doing better, in credits, research, and Ranking Tournament points.

      Of course, the problem with penalizing players that do this is that, for those of us who are a little higher ranked and want to play with friends at those low ranks, they would get penalized as well. For example, I'm at rank 1815 (last I checked), and a friend of mine is at the 1470s (again, last I checked). But she and I have a blast playing with each other. She's fully aware she doesn't play very well, and she's fully aware that I and our other friends completely stomp her, and she doesn't care because she has fun playing. In private lobbies with friends, this is something that's absolutely okay. So having a penalization against players for these actions is going to hurt more than it helps.

      Another possible solution is to allow lobby hosts to create Cst limits when they create a room. For example, if I create a room and don't want advanced people completely demolishing everything, then I would set a Cst limit of probably 900. This way, the combination of an aircraft, parts, and datalink will make sure that everyone has an even standing ground. It can also be optional for those players who create the private matches that I mentioned above, so that we can continue to play freely with each other. However, rooms marked as "Beginners welcome", which is used a lot by those high-level boosters, should enforce a Cst limit at all times of no more than probably 800, so that beginners to the game can be safe from the advanced players.

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    • That's actually what I saw in the room I "played" , one was a 2512, and I agree with the Cst limit, would be very useful at limiting these players, and I hate those "beginners welcome" room, I see them when I look for rooms and all I can think of usually is "Don't you have any honor?" I hope PA implements this kind of system for the rooms.

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    • The thing is, a similar system is already in place in Team Deathmatch. It's just unavailable to players, especially since we can't create our own TDM matches (yet). So I don't think it would be too drastically difficult to see it implemented in Online Co-Op.

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    • Yeah I saw those settings too in TDM, should be simple enpugh too set it in Co-op too.

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    • I remember having this one experience, since i've been uploading a lot of videos in youtube before, A player added me in his buddy list and invited me for a game.

      Only to find out he was around 1500 MR, so I created a new aircraft set just to match his rank (my dusty lv3 f4e), then others came in and we're able to start the room. Although they were also 1500s and 1600s, my God, they're packing f-15smtd and f-35, my team mate was using the vanilla f-16. In the end I got 3rd on that 4p room and left the room because It feels so wrong for me to be in there, but if I used a mid-tier set, i'll unintentionally be clubbing my team mate.

      And that 1 sortie made me realize how really important cst restrictions are. It's very easy to manipulate the MR for those with bad intentions but in some cases, there are also players that just love to fly(or just love the franchise) but lacks in piloting(or they're just new) to the game.

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    • That would be me actually, I absolutely love too fly, during non-tourney days sometimes I join any MR rooms, low or high, literally just too fly, nothing else, just fly around the map and enjoy it, especially over Tokyo, because flying is my passion and I love it~

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    • I have to say that I very much agree with the idea of introducing a method to limit Cst when hosting a room. That would make so much more difference towards leveling the playing field on a day-to-day basis. There also really ought to be a variable in the MR algorithim for factoring in what planes and equipment are being used by each player, rather than basing it all on points scored. Almost from the start people have been complaining about high MR players intnetionally "abusing" others ranked below them and that is simply not always true or fair to players who happen to be ranked higher but still play fair. Now, I'm not gonna lie - at one point I was over 2200 and was even a little proud of myself for it. However, I have never intentionally "preyed" on lower ranks and I never throw high ranks out of a room I host in order to take advantage of less experienced or poorly equipped players.

      On most occasions I open 8 player lobbies with no restrictions, and generally random sorites unless there is a specific challenge going on. This is mainly because it seems to be the quickest way to fill a room and play, which is all I really want to do, and most of the time I fly a favorite plane that isn't as powerful as some of them just because I want to and don't worry about the score. Naturally, the majority of players are below the 2000 mark but if one or two people with ranks higher than mine happen to join, more power to 'em. We play, and scores normally reflect MR. A lot of times though I'm trying out a new aircraft set or compeleting a challenge and don't even notice that high-roller is in the room until the end. When that happens, my MR gets decimated and everyone runs out of the room immediately afterwards and I do feel kinda bad for them.

      The alternative of always trying to play with ranks within 100 points or so of my MR may be more "fair" by definition, but it is just not fun. A 6 player room full of 2000+ is nice because it virtually gaurantees an S rank, but it is so competitive and happens so fast that it isn't very enjoyable. After all, this is a game. It isn't supposed to make you feel bad for playing it. If we could limit the room to planes with a certain Cst cap or there was some sort of points handicapping system for low ranks to offset the advantage of elite players, I really think that everybody would have more fun playing ACI.

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    • If I see a high tier player in a room I leave. I refuse to play an 1800+ player when I'm only at 1600.

      Of course, the reason I am at 1600 is primarily because I have been playing for Special Events and not performing my best, but still...

      Also, has anyone noticed how amazingly overpowered the CPUs are? I've seen them accelerate and decelerate astonishingly quickly, and they seem more manueverable than even low level Cst750 aircraft.

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    • ^I could've sworn a CPU shot down the Butterfly Master during Moscow Battle one time. . .


      Anyway, I'm currently hovering around a 1940-1950 MR. I usually try to stay within 50+/- of my MR, but if I can't find or make a room, I'll join rooms that are lower than me but not lower than 1825.

      It also gives me a chance to use my older aircraft sets that I don't use very often. (I miss flying my F-16. . .)

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    • I think there are 3 options here: One would be to leave everything as it is, wich doesn´t help at all. Option number 2 would be to make like in Gran turismo series where you must put a nametag on the lobby, that should help, parcially (Until a Seal clubber sets a name like Seal herding and ruins everything). And the third one would be to implement the cost limits, wich I think is the more effective way to solve this problem 

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    • CPUs aren't limited by anything, they can stand completely still in the air if they wanted too, they also cannot crash like the enemy CPUs however for balancing they can be shot down by enemy AIs, other wise they stand on 2 different modes, passive, when they have no nearby enemy and will gradually make their way too the next target, and aggressive, when they found said target and will proceed too spam missiles that have a near 100% chance of hitting, also doesn't matter what the enemy AI does too try and evade them, both are built on the same abilities so the Ally will always keep up.

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    • That's why I prefer joining 2000+ rooms and wait to see what happens (usually a kick), the only way I'll play in a lower rank room, is when I get invited from a friend, and that's why I also try to have prepared a mid-low tier plane, like the F-16F -Desert Rock-.

      I also agree with adding a cst restriction... Imagine 2500 MR players flying high leveled X-02 -Knight- against an F-14D or even a Su-35, that would be extremely OP.

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    • Playing with my friend is easy right now with the Scarface Su-35 since its still low level (forgive me but I keep forgetting too write down stats and prices before upgrading it...) so I'm not ridiculously over powered when I play with him, and pretty much everyone here wants a CST restriction.

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    • Personally, I would get rid of the current MR system, it just messes everything up. 

      Cst-based matches are the way.

      Some ago I created a possible way to deal with kickers, involving using a lot of Cr. If anyone's interested in hearing that, I can go looking out for the post where I wrote it...

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    • @TMLguy I agree, if anything MR should be replaced by your rank (major, cololnel, etc...), something that other players cannot see and would be more interesting too see then MR but would still not affect the game and Cst should dictate rooms instead of the MR.

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    • My favorite is a MR 2000+,beginners welcome and kicks anyone above a 1600 and if you beat them!

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    • The problem all all along has been that MR = most points scored, period. Although each individual is effected by the rates of everyone else in the room, basing everything on MR alone is not fair to anybody except in the most competitive circumstances. There are maybe a few hundred genuinely excellent players who regularly compete against each other almost exclusively, and their places in the standings of events reflect that. Sometimes though I will "catch" some of them hosting a low rank room, and I'm guessing it is because it gives them a chance to have some fun without having to worry too much that their rank is going to be effected since it is almost a certainty that they are going to score the most points. That does still take advantage of low ranks though, with the only positive aspect being that one well equipped player can lead a whole room of nuggets to an S rank.

      There have been many times I was kicked from a room hosted by an equal or higher MR, presumably because I was a potential "threat" to their own rate. Other times, I get kicked from rooms hosted by ranks lower than mine, because the host assumes I am there to take advantage of everyone else. This is simply not true. When I try to join a lower-ranked room, I do it because I plan to utilize a low Cst aircraft set in order to complete specific challenges. Just because I am ranked higher does not necessarily mean that I am going to crush 7 other players with my Lv.1 A-10 or whatever, regardless of their ranks.

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    • I don't worry about my Matching Rate at all, but I do try to find rooms where I won't get dominated.

      I saw a room the other day where a 2100 MR player had posted a room saying "Beginners Welcome".

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    • 72.240.12.100 wrote:

      When I try to join a lower-ranked room, I do it because I plan to utilize a low Cst aircraft set in order to complete specific challenges. 

      Ok, but how do the others know you will use a lvl.1 A-10A instead of your lvl.15 Su-34?

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    • Question: When you people start a room and a player that's way lower than you (1400-1600 or whatever), do you boot them or let them play?


      I generally play in 4 player rooms, but will go into 8 player rooms occasionally. As long as there are 2 or 3 players around my rating (1900+) I'll stay even if everyone else is 1400ish. I think that's reasonable. The high players fight for MVP, while the low rated players clean up the rest of the yellow targets, and get more credits in the process (since a room full of new players rarely gets 'S' ranks) Besides, 8 player rooms where everyone is 1900+ is not fun. Everything is destroyed one minute into the match. It's just a race to the targets, not a real 'fight.'

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    • I'm curiously doing exactly that thing, I entered a 2000-2050 MR 4-people room to complete challenges, in my level 1 A-10 -DT-, just to get kicked over and over.

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    • Besides, 8 player rooms where everyone is 1900+ is not fun. Everything is destroyed one minute into the match. It's just a race to the targets, not a real 'fight.'

      Excuse me, but THAT is a real competitive match, where you have to pull out the best of your skills in order to win, for example in my case, in a 6-people 2200+ MR room.

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    • Another thing which really hits my nerves is that BN runs tournaments every single day, meaning you have no time to rest or to "enjoy" a peaceful flight with friends/other players without rushing.

      It's "easy" to understand why Seal Clubbers take advantage during tournaments, but during the few normal days they should be punished in the strongest possible way.

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    • When I create a room (I'm ranked 1820, somewhere around there, it keeps changing obviously) and lower ranks join my match, I leave them in. The thing is, people of those ranks are still playing the game, so they know how to play and they can do their own thing as well. I've played with low ranked players who have seriously held their own against me in my Lv.5 X-02.

      I think it falls into another thing; you have to work as a team. Yes, obviously, steal kills from the other team as well, but don't steal kills from your own team and use your aircraft's class advantage. When you have a team of dedicated ground attack and dedicated air attack, you can clear your set of targets in no time. The problem with "seal clubbers" is that, to get the most Ranking Points, they take as many targets as possible no matter what. It's why multiroles are used more often; you can clear everything out. I'd be terrified to meet a Lv.10 X-02 -Knight-, because that thing is a monster for clearing out targets.

      There's lots of variables here that have to be taken into account. In my opinion, we should have it how it was done in Assault Horizon; aircraft selection before sortie, because then you can implement the Aircraft Cst restriction easily. I don't know how it'll be implemented in the current system, to be honest, especially in the case of not having any suitable sets. Maybe Rentals would work there, now that I think about it, actually...

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    • CocoonOne wrote:

      Besides, 8 player rooms where everyone is 1900+ is not fun. Everything is destroyed one minute into the match. It's just a race to the targets, not a real 'fight.'

      Excuse me, but THAT is a real competitive match, where you have to pull out the best of your skills in order to win, for example in my case, in a 6-people 2200+ MR room.

      Whatever floats your boat, man. To me that's not fun at all.

      Let me put it this way. Say a mission with 8 high rated players lasts an average of two minutes less than a mission with 4 high rated players. Over the coarse of 60 sorties you've lost TWO HOURS of gameplay. All because of the illusion of greater competitiveness. But really, it's not that much more competitive.

      So you've got to beat out more people. Who cares? Half the targets are gone in the first wave of the attack. So before you've even turned around it's half over. That's not a match, that's a race.

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    • TheTLMguy wrote:
      72.240.12.100 wrote:
      When I try to join a lower-ranked room, I do it because I plan to utilize a low Cst aircraft set in order to complete specific challenges. 
      Ok, but how do the others know you will use a lvl.1 A-10A instead of your lvl.15 Su-34?


      That's the point - they don't. That's why a Cst cap would be a fairer system to everyone for any given sortie.

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    • 72.240.12.100 wrote:
      TheTLMguy wrote:
      72.240.12.100 wrote:
      When I try to join a lower-ranked room, I do it because I plan to utilize a low Cst aircraft set in order to complete specific challenges. 
      Ok, but how do the others know you will use a lvl.1 A-10A instead of your lvl.15 Su-34?

      That's the point - they don't. That's why a Cst cap would be a fairer system to everyone for any given sortie.

      That way, you know [i]before[/i] joining any room what to expect. This would give everybody the oppotunity to be competitive based more on skill, rather than just assuming that a higher MR player is always better equipped than lower one and therefore going to exploit that every chance they get.

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    • 72.240.12.100 wrote:
      TheTLMguy wrote:
      72.240.12.100 wrote:
      When I try to join a lower-ranked room, I do it because I plan to utilize a low Cst aircraft set in order to complete specific challenges. 
      Ok, but how do the others know you will use a lvl.1 A-10A instead of your lvl.15 Su-34?

      That's the point - they don't. That's why a Cst cap would be a fairer system to everyone for any given sortie.

      It seems like it would be doable to add a airplane cst cap option in the new room options. There's already a mechanism in place to restrict which planes can be used (a la plane restricted tournaments). Then just leave everything else alone. Then people can decide if they want to play in (for example) a room full of 2000+ players with a 1400 cst cap or an unlimited room with low rated players. It doesn't prevent seal clubbing of new players, but at least it makes regular players more aware of what they're getting into.

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    • I think the MR level for the room displayed on the Search menu should be averaged, not just the level of the host.

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    • I'am already having a hard time joining MR1850 - 2500 rooms, most of the time I get kicked by the MR 1900-2500, mine is currently at MR1850, and I just can't join in a low MR match because I might get accused of being a seal clubber

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    • I've been playing a lot with my friends recently, 2 of them being below 1500, and I must say, I've been having more fun playing with him and a bunch of Nuggets then with people of my own rank, I use the Su-35 Scarface at lvl 2 when I'm in their room so I do about as much damage as they do. These guys aren't nearly as competitive as the 2000+, makes me regret being a high ranked, so much more fun without everyone rushing.

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    • I think it's time for me to step down from my Flaneker-E as well and start to derank again in my Fishbed

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    • that was suppose to be Flanker-E, sorry for the wrong spelling

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    • I agree with some of the ideas: planes sets (with their cst levels) and rankings (captain, major, ...) could be displayed with the matching rate of all players. This would force veterans to reveal theirselves, they wouldn't be able to hide their actual experience, and they wouldn't be able to take advantage of nuggets.

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    • 191.177.125.177 wrote:
      I agree with some of the ideas: planes sets (with their cst levels) and rankings (captain, major, ...) could be displayed with the matching rate of all players. This would force veterans to reveal theirselves, they wouldn't be able to hide their actual experience, and they wouldn't be able to take advantage of nuggets.

      AND it would allow to lock rooms limiting them to only specific ranks!


      Anyway, have you ever considered that EVERY single player is asked to partecipate to every tournament? Some of you will probably hate me, but I think that every player should choose to attend a tournament or not.

      A beginner with only his/her F-4E lvl.1 can't really do much if another player in the same room has a lvl.10 F-22A or another fully-skilled aircraft. I am not even sure they can reach the lowest rank which receives a prize in the end.

      So, another filter during tournaments is (1) having players who "state" they are running for the tournament - let's say their names become yellow - and (2) there are room where only partecipants can join/not_join. Of course, in this case Kick is not allowed.

      What do you think?

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    • @TLMguy That's actually a pretty good idea, making tournament players more noticeable and having rooms exclusive for them and exlcusie too non-participant would help a lot too.

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    • I disagree. I think that the idea of having all players participate in tournaments is so that you can have the "dedicated" tournament players who earn high rewards and the "passive" tournament players (usually like me) who are pleasantly suprised when they find that they've ranked highly.

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    • SuperJaws100 wrote:
      I disagree. I think that the idea of having all players participate in tournaments is so that you can have the "dedicated" tournament players who earn high rewards and the "passive" tournament players (usually like me) who are pleasantly suprised when they find that they've ranked highly.

      Fine. Then you decide to run for the rewards and play into dedicated rooms.

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    • I'm with TheTLMguy; make people decide if they want to participate or not in a tournament. I've gone through so many turnamnets now where I'm just trying to fly/level up a plane for fun, and you have no choice but to get into matches with people going all-out tyring to snatch up points for a tournament, or where you're trying to take part in a tournament, but end up with a bunch of people only trying to complete challenges or something like that. That's why I think tournaments like the Scarface one, where you have to use certain planes, are a bit more balanced, becuase you basically acknowledge that you're participating (not perfect, but better). Heck, even sometimes I'll be participating in a tournament and tehn decide there's a new plane/set I'd like to try and want to field test it really quick. Taking a pure experiment into a tournament doesn't make a lot of sense. If you want to be passive and take a stab at ranking higher, just participate and see what happens. But for those who realize right away they don't want to participate or won't make a dent, then let them opt-out.

      The current torunament is a good example. How many people are still in it right now who care much about anything below rank 200 for the X-02 Knight? I wanted to, but work, etc, has kept me from participating. Last I checked earlier in the day, rank 200 had about 90,000 pts. Which is roughly 80,000 more than me, meaning I'd need to burn around 72 units of fuel (24 missions with max forced sorite) just to catch up - not gonna happen. So, I planned on spending a bit of time this weekend upgrading some stuff. If I could, I'd opt out of the tournament and fly regular missions because i honestly don't care about the tournament now, and it's really unfair to those who do for me to now go and saturate the scoreboard, lop-side the matches, by flying a bunch of missions just to maximize money and test some plane sets. 

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    • I'am with The TLMguy too, during tournaments that is the time that high ranks rampantly abuses the nuggets and kicks out outer legitimate high ranked players just for them to get the awards

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    • If only PA/BN could see all of this.

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    • Just now I got kicked from a 2100 MR room, when he got several 1400MR he booted me out

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    • SEAL829 wrote:
      during tournaments that is the time that high ranks rampantly abuses the nuggets and kicks out outer legitimate high ranked players just for them to get the awards

      And with weekly tournaments it is a never ending cycle.


      I don't know why they implemented an aircraft set cost system and not add a room option to limit it.

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    • I find it bad when this does not happen a tournament. Exactly, WHAT are you trying to prove here? Your not going to get anything from doing that when there is no tournament going on. That your are better then, I don't know, 50% of the players?

      CST is probably the best solution. Easy, and will especially be more, surprising.

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    • Iám at 1860MR, and he was at 2100MR, so he boots me out and keeps the 1400MR is that suppose to be fair?

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    • SEAL829 wrote:
      Iám at 1860MR, and he was at 2100MR, so he boots me out and keeps the 1400MR is that suppose to be fair?

      It's because people can't boost if a good player is in the room, so normally he will keep the low ranks and kick you out

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